Breaking sourdough bread at Tartine with Sasha and PJ
In-between slices of sourdough bread and hummus
Breaking bread
Documenting my conversations over gooooood bread, and even better company.
An interview series that centers around our favorite breads, and the personal histories and memories baked into them.
You can view the full series, and more of my work in my portfolio page here.
Sometimes, synchronicity still surprises me. For the first edition of breaking bread, two of the first (separate and unplanned) conversations I had were, by chance, over Tartine’s sourdough country loaf bread.
Breaking bread with Sasha
I met Sasha on an early Thursday morning — surprisingly sunny and lively after weeks of periodic rains in the city. Last time we met in person was over dumplings with a few of our other friends. It was only appropriate that she was one of the first people I would “break bread” with.
Off the record, we share similarities about being raised in the Southeast US, and nerd over our favorite architectural experiences, our love for cities in Spain, and book recommendations. One book I recommended to Sasha is Marta D. Riezu’s Agua y Jabon, which speaks to the gestures of “involuntary elegance”, a trait that Sasha wears so casually since I’ve known her. Cool, calm, and collected while warm and radiant, Sasha embodies elegance that is as simple as soap and water.
BREAD OF CHOICE
Her bread of choice is Tartine’s country loaf sourdough, which we shared with butter and hummus.
In-between sourdough and generous hummus dippings, I get slices of Sasha’s memories moving to the city from Atlanta with her husband, Ian — and how Tartine’s sourdough and one whimsical park fairy play important parts.
WHAT IS YOUR FAVORITE BREAD? WHY?
I picked sourdough generally because I think it was my introduction to more complex breads. Growing up, I didn't really eat sourdough bread. It was whatever you could get at the store. I ate a lot of King's Hawaiian bread and later some Dave's Killer bread when I was trying to be healthy. And then, sourdough became like a later love, which expanded my love of breads generally.
FAVORITE MEMORY WITH THIS BREAD?
Jenina: Ooh. I love the notion of a later love. When was the moment where it [sourdough] became your favorite? And why? Because there's so much bread in the world also from different cultures as well. Why did sourdough specifically stuck out for you?
I'm trying to remember the genesis moment of why it was sourdough bread. I don't remember the exact moment, but I do remember the moment in San Francisco, sitting at a park with my husband and his sister and her boyfriend. And there was this woman laying in a field. We're all sitting there. It's like a really beautiful sunny day, and she's just sitting by herself, and she's playing with these flowers, playing with her hands in the air, just like a very whimsical soul. You could just tell. And we noticed her, you know, having a good time.
And she gets up to leave and she comes over to us and she's holding this brown paper bag, and she's like, I was supposed to give this bread to a friend, but they didn't want it. Would you guys like it? Like, I just baked it, and she was like, it's from the mill. And we took it from this random woman that we've been calling the park fairy since. That was very early in living in San Francisco. And as you may know, San Francisco has some of the best bread. So the park fairy handed us that sourdough, I felt like, that's maybe when we started exclusively eating sourdough bread. But from that moment, I found Tartine a little bit later, and I think that theirs is my favorite.
HOW DO YOU LIKE IT MADE?
I haven't dabbled into making sourdough bread yet. I think I ought to try. It feels a little daunting, but I've seen people do it. I've seen regular people like myself make bread out of bread. So I think I ought to try that. But I love so many things on sourdough. I think maybe my favorite is smoked salmon and cream cheese. I also love butter and jam. And with avocado, obviously. Sometimes I'll even do sardine and olive oil and lemon. Honestly, the options are endless.
LIVING, PAST, OR FUTURE — WHO WOULD YOU LIKE TO BREAK BREAD WITH?
It's a little sentimental, I’d say my husband, Ian. I think sourdough bread is a big thing in my relationship with my husband. I remember one of our first marital squabbles was about a toaster. We were debating whether we should get the one that has a one slot toaster, or the double slot lengthwise. And we're like, what about this one slot. But, it’s small, it's too chunky. But with the two slots, we need to get that one because the only bread we eat is sourdough bread. People see it and they're like these toasters kind of ridiculous but it's perfect for a slice of sourdough bread.
So, I think when I think about who I want to break bread with, I just hope that I can always break bread with him.
BONUS: SASHA’S TOASTER RECOMMENDATION FOR SOURDOUGH
The toaster brand is a Zwilling with the two long slot toaster. And I have it in black. It's matte.
Breaking bread with PJ
Naturally, as the first conversation I officially recorded for “breaking bread”, PJ and I began our conversation discussing the origins of sourdough bread.
“Okay, so apparently sourdough bread comes from San Francisco. It comes from San Francisco. That's what I've heard.”
Oh, really?
“Yeah. Well, I mean, don't quote me on it, but I think that's what I've seen on Wikipedia.”
[few minutes into the interview]
“Google says it's believed that the use of sourdough and bread developed in ancient Egypt. But sourdough bread became a staple in San Francisco during the California Gold Rush.”
Few days after “breaking bread” with PJ, I was reading Apollania Poilâne’s eponymous book, owner of the family-owned Parisian bakery “Poilâne”. The established bakery is best known for its flour dusted sourdough loaf, engraved with their signature “P” in cursive.
In her introduction, Apollania shares a memory with her late father, Lionel, during the opening of their London bakery, the first Poilane bakery outside of France.
He insisted that Apollania and her sister light the oven for the first time, a symbolic passing down of the ceremonial torch to the next generation. Apollania reflects,
“He believed there was something magical about lighting an oven, but even more so with the transfer of fire — with its energy and light — to a new generation of bread and people.”
These shared intimacies are specific yet universal, mundane yet they make an indelible mark in our lives, even when we only see the through-lines at a distance. My intention for 'breaking bread' is to celebrate these everyday memories, with bread as an entry-point and common thread. However, it promises to never be the end-point and always unravels something larger than these small conversations and pieces of bread.
PJ’s interview reminds me of the quiet and enduring power of mundane family memories, even when bread is not front and center, but persisting in small ways.
BREAD OF CHOICE
PJ’s bread of choice was originally ciabatta, with sourdough as a close second. However, Tartine’s close proximity meant that we chose to “break bread” over the bakery’s country bread sourdough loaf.
WHAT IS YOUR FAVORITE BREAD? WHY?
Growing up, I would always eat sourdough bread as a kid. And I'm talking literally. I would walk around so my mom would go to Safeway and she'd buy those like dollar giant rolls of sourdough bread. She'd give it to me. And I have distinct memories of walking around our little, what do you call it? It's like a little courtyard.
And this is in Pacifica. And I would just walk around the courtyard of the townhouses with this giant loaf of bread. And I would probably finish the whole thing by the end of the day. And then the funny thing is I kind of think about these memories from time to time.
FAVORITE MEMORY WITH THIS BREAD?
There's no deep, like, family history story about how my ancestors ate sourdough bread. No, I just like the flavor. I don't know why.
[later in the interview]
I remember as a kid walking around my neighborhood, with a giant roll of bread, and giant, as it's like, you know, relative to my height at the time, so I was probably 7, 8, or 9 years old. And, you know, I'm, this is audio, so you can't see, but I'm putting my hand up and what is this like four feet, three feet. And so at the time, the roll of bread was probably half of my height.
And I would walk around the neighborhood and I would finish the whole roll by the end of the day. And the best part of even to this day, my favorite part of any roll of bread are the ends because it's hard, crunchy, kind of has extra gristle flavor.
I actually remember too, as a kid, I would ask my mom for these sourdough rolls. But specifically using the end of the loaf, or the end of the roll, like it's like a cup. But you know, when you're just kind of like quirky as a kid? I would get this sandwich that's like made from the end of the loaf, or a roll. And I would wet my hands, and I would kind of flick the water on the bread. And I would call it a water loaf. No reason for me to do that. But I would ask my mom, ‘Oh, can you make me a water loaf?’
HOW DO YOU LIKE IT MADE?
I can literally eat [sourdough bread] by itself. Like I said, as a kid, I would walk around and just eat a loaf to myself. I could just eat that. I don't even need the soup. I don't need it. I could just eat the bread.
It’s like when you're eating sushi and you get too much of that sushi flavor and you need ginger in between different rolls to break that flavor. I feel like with sourdough bread, I don't ever need that break of flavor.
LIVING, PAST, OR FUTURE — WHO WOULD YOU LIKE TO BREAK BREAD WITH?
This is just because of what I've been watching lately, but I would like to break bread with Van Gogh.
If you ask me that question any week, it'll probably change my answer, but right now I'm curious to see what Van Gogh would think — asking him about life as we eat bread.
